This is so overwhelming, I want to just cry. How do I know if she has any other policies out there if she doesn't remember them?

GardenArtist, you're right, the interest rate could have been later adjusted to what was the current prime rate. Sounds like Grandmother and her son didn't want to rock the boat and ask to refinance that loan, or they just didn't realize they could have done that.

My Dad was my "banker" on one house loan which started out at 10% which was current at the time, but when the rate started to fall, Dad contact me and renegotiated down to the lower rate :)

Now that I am thinking, it also sounds like Grandmother's and her Son's loan was privately made, thus a bit higher interest rate. Usually this happens if one's credit wasn't that great, or for some reason they both couldn't get a bank loan to purchase the house.

What fraud?

It's a thirty year secured loan with two years to run: essentially it's rental with accrued equity though a mortgage. The irregularity is down to the information provided to the company by the grandmother and nephew, and that is what needs investigating and correcting. I think it's a bit harsh to blame the company, or assume they're rip-off merchants.

Rent-to-buy schemes are used a lot by social housing providers. They tried incentivising standard mortgages in this market sector instead, and selling on the risk. Didn't go so well, eh.

FF, good comment on interest rates decades ago. My whole premise of fraud and usurious rates might therefore be inaccurate. But the interest rate should have been adjusted downward as the prime rate was.

eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome

Even though this website is for those who are deceased, they may still be able to locate policy (ies) for your grandma.

DeeAnna just gave me another idea. Put fraud alerts or credit freezes on your GM's accounts. Order the credit reports themselves and review them.

as for if she has other policies,, just watch you mail like a hawk. If anything is still active you should get mail at least once a year with the updates. However, if the accounts were not dealt with in any way for awhile,, they may be marked inactive. When MIL was executor for her brother,, they had to drive to about every bank in our area.. and found a lot of small accounts that added up to decent money. He liked to put money everywhere,, they had a terrible time with this.

GardenArtist has given you some excellent suggestions and I think that she is right that you should NOT contact anyone about the property problems until you have talked with a lawyer.

Also, I agree that you need to put a "Confidential Alert" on your Granny's chart that states that NO ONE can contact your Granny or take her out of the facility or that the facility can even admit that your Granny is a resident at the nursing home staff. Unfortunately you may have to include your Mom and Aunt in the "DO NOT CONTACT" order if it is discovered that they knew about the house scam and did nothing about it.

Is it possible that the reason your mom and aunt "feel slighted" is because they KNEW WHAT YOUR UNCLE was doing regarding your Granny's house??? So I think that you SHOULD NOT DISCUSS anything about your Granny's financial circumstances with your Mom and Aunt just in case they were/are involved in the house scam.

Maybe that is why your Granny left you in charge of her affairs because she knew that you would do what is right and what is legal regarding her finances.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shakingdustoff, in the 1960's and 1970's it was common practice to RENT your phone from the phone company and most people didn't blink an eye at that because it was an expected service that phone company provided. It has only been the last 20 years, when the cell phone started being more affordable, that owning a phone became the route to have a phone. It is amazing how life has changed over the past 50 years. I remember when computers were the size of rooms and we had to use "Punch Cards" to "communicate with the computer. My, how times have changed!! :)

One thing to note, 28 years ago back in the 1980's interest rates were up in the teens.

With a rent-to-buy, the rate was probably a bit higher where the owner of the house was putting into a savings a certain amount for your Grandparents to use when they took the option to purchase the house. Apparently the option was never used, and your Uncle and his Mother just kept paying the rent.

I'm approaching only the real estate issue. You've gotten good suggestions on locating insurance policies.

Liz'sDaughter, I just did a quick check of your earlier answers for possible additional information that might help, while thinking over this very, troublesome and confusing situation.

1. Interest Rate Issues.

"15.5% interest rate for a 30 year loan on $17K!! " - that's incredible, clearly predatory, and probably usurious.

2. Contact with rental company (or whatever it is).

Not to contradict CM, whose insight and wit I respect, but given the fraudulent issues involved, I wouldn't contact the rental company or anyone involved in what I think is a scheme, w/o first speaking with an attorney.

3. Owner of Record.

There's another issue that troubles me. Have you done a check in the Register of Deeds office to see what other interests exist on this property? I think that, given the fraud (and potential additional fraud issues), I definitely WOULD NOT pay off the contract, which may not even be legitimate, i.e, do you know who REALLY owns the property?

Owners of record and other potential conflicting interests ABSOLUTELY need to be determined before any more money is paid out. You could end up literally putting money into an empty well if the record owners aren't identified. I.e., how would you know any conveyance is legitimate, and that these people have clear title in order to convey their interest?

I have a very uncomfortable feeling that this shady rental outfit might not even own the property.

4. Claims Against Title.

It also wouldn't surprise me if liens are outstanding against the property. A foreclosure search will reflect that. It will also reflect any outstanding property taxes. You might want to contact the community Treasurer's Office to find out if property taxes are current or delinquent.

5. Personal Safety Issues.

And contacting any aspect or participant of this scam could jeopardize yours and your granny's safety, as well as compromise legal action by tipping off the scammers.

I've learned and read of scams in which the scammer pretends to own a property but really doesn't.

6. Legal Action.

So I think your best course of action now is to find a few attorneys, preferably in the same firm. A transactional or real estate attorney can obtain a foreclosure search (rather than a title commitment which you would need if you purchased property sold legitimately).

A foreclosure search literally scours the title and identifies any and all entities with an interest in the property, which interest would have to be extinguished before clear title could be obtained.

We did this when I worked for foreclosure law firms, and it was done to flush out all contractors or others with interests, so those interests could be addressed and foreclosed out in order to get clear title for the mortgagee.

In addition, it literally identifies and "brings the bugs out of the woodwork."

7. Fraud Issues and Criminal Legal Action.

Another issue may be involved: criminal fraud prosecution. I think usurious interests rates fall into a fraud category as well, so when you get the foreclosure search and discuss the results with a real estate or transactional law (the umbrella practice including real estate and finance) attorney, raise the issue of whether to contact the police or prosecutor to refer the case for criminal prosecution.

If there are interstate companies involved, I think a US District Attorney would be the appropriate contact.

Also ask the real estate attorney to do check on ownership of the various entities involved. That'll provide some information on the people behind this scam. A prosecutor at either local or federal level can do a US wide search to look for other scams.

If this has been perpetuated for sometime, and there's a pattern of fraud (or racketeering), RICO charges might be appropriate.

8. Another caution.

I think you've stumbled on a real hornet's nest, and that's one of the reasons I would advise no contact with anyone. These kinds of people can be nasty and retaliate. I would also provide a confidential alert to your GM's nursing home staff and ask about additional protection.....just to be on the safe side. I HOPE that this doesn't happen, but it's best to be prepared.


9. Late payment notices.

If you do get late notices from the so-called rental company, I wouldn't even respond w/o discussing it with the real estate attorney.

10. Law firm practice areas.

Generally, mid to large to mammoth sized law firms have tax, litigation and other similar practice areas, but the larger, mega attorney law firms sometimes have attorneys who handle white collar crime. I would consider locating one of these firms so you have two attorneys working in tandem.

You could also inquire of either the real estate attorney, or a civil litigation attorney whether your grandmother has a cause of action against the scammers arising from misrepresentation, although I'm not really sure about this since she wasn't a party to the original contract.

When did your uncle die? His heirs may also have some level of claim, but a transactional attorney would be best to review and determine this.


This is really quite a convoluted, and unsettling discovery. I'd appreciate it if you update us on at least this aspect.

Well, why don't you first of all call the home rent to buy company and see what they can suggest? As you say, they've been cheerfully taking payments from your grandmother, you have records and numbers, a de facto contract has been in existence and they may be prepared to help you resolve the problems. If you don't ask, you won't get.

There are search tools for finding insurance policies and similar financial products. With the one you know about, if your grandmother is up to it she can give her insurer permission to discuss her policy with you. Ask an administrator at the NH for help with this if you can't get over there to do it yourself. The quickest way would be for your grandmother, with help, to call the customer services people and instruct them to call you.

I think many people's financial affairs are not kept orderly; you're probably the good exception, being an accountant and all :) It will be a mess, but I can't think who'd be better able to unpick it than you, one piece of paper at a time. Come here and vent whenever you'd like to. Hugs

Liz, if Grandmother had worked for business and that business is still around, check with the Human Resource office to see if the company had offered life insurance polices to their employees. Or if Grandmother's husband had worked for a large business.

Or try Consumers Report article on how to find missing insurance policies. www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/02/how-to-find-lost-life-insurance-policies/index.htm or type into Google "missingmoney".