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If anyone on this site believes their loved ones were rushed by over-medicating them by any hospice and filed a lawsuit, please let me know and if there were any results in the case at all. Thank you so much for you help.
Well, no lawsuit, but I did question taking so many hard drugs. I questioned them and asked if it could kill him. They said to me, I could give him everything and it would not kill him. It was a bit unnerving to say the least. Our doctor was the Hospice doctor. I trusted him.
Not to sound harsh but to be accepted by hospice, they are determined have less than 6 mos to live. Terminal with death imminent. To be accepted by hospice (a Medicare benefit) a request for hospice placement needs to be done by either their personal physician, or the hospitalist ( if they were in a hospital), or by the medical director (if they were in a NH); then the hospice does their own evaluation as to the terminal probability of the patient. They both have to agree that the condition is terminal for them to go onto hospice. The individual or their DPOA / MPOA agreed to hospice. Personally, I doubt that " premature death" concept could get any consideration if they are in hospice.
My MIL died with 3 weeks in a free standing hospice only facility and was on pretty serious drugs as she was septic with multiple organ failures and in deep pain. Facility had a pretty sophisticated pain management system. My mom was on hospice for 18 mos at a NH with low but consistent pain & anxiety medications for the entire time. Mom basically withering away bedfast from 100 lbs to under 60 lbs. If hospice could have over-medicated my mom to hasten her demise it would have been a good thing...if I could have signed off for this to be done, I would have as the last couple of months were like watching a self mummifcation....but this is not what hospice does nor allows to happen.
Also for any Medicare related lawsuit - should it even be successful- Medicare will require reinbursement for costs paid by Medicare from a settlement. This is due to the Medicare Secondary Payor Act (MSPA) which went into effect in 2010 but based on the Medicare Act that Bush signed in 2006. Just how MSP is done is pretty involved. Because of MSPA, it may be harder to find a lawyer.
Well, for one, I would never sue Hospice. The entire group are dedicated to care of the patient and comfort. Hospice itself was a great thing and I have asked my kids to use it for me if I am in any stressful pain or death is just not coming and I am not tolerating it. My issue was with the training of the nurse. She was not in tune with me or the fact that I was suffering from the loss. Her main thing was to get all the drugs thrown out as fast as she could and she said, I have left my dog at home alone. I think she has been at it so long, that something is missing now. I hope you understand. I have seen the good Hospice does. I just feel the nurse needs some sensibility training of some sort They told me I could give him everything I had and it would not kill him. He was so done with his pain and his rash all over his body. I would not doubt it was infected and hurting. A lawsuit would not just hurt Hospice it would affect those who need hospice.
To each and all of you who were nice enough to take the time to answer my question thank you. You all have different arguments. What if the family member just broke a hip and after rehab had NO pain at all but hospice had the patient bedridden with NO PT or OT after another family member requested it. Also why NOT get the patient out of bed and give too much of medication AND when a family member said NO NO NO morphine they went ahead and gave it anyway and the patient died! Then what do you think? Oh hospice is so good. BULL! NO one human can predict someones upcoming passing. ONLY GOD and GOD alone has the right to KNOW NOT an M.D. nor any nurse. If a family member says NO morphine they MEAN it. Now tell me why would hospice disregard those wishes of the family member who too is in the medical profession and whose family member was in NO pain at all at all. Please if you know I sure as heck would love to know. Thanks
I hear you! It is sooooo hard to see these things happening to our loved ones. Morphine nearly killed my husband. They called it an unresponsive episode and told me to expect more of these. I managed to talk our PCP into prescribing something milder for pain. After husband broke his hip in April they sent him home from hospital bedridden, saying he needed hospice care. Story is too long to tell, but six months later he his doing better than he has in years. Less medication, more quality of life, even walking with his walker. But it has taken a toll on me. Having to advocate for him on a daily basis. For me it is worth it, but there are many who would disagree. I pray you will have peace in whatever you decide.
blondmedicdoglv, curious if the family member that said no morphine was the patient's medical Power of Attorney. My Mom is on hospice care now and the hospice group only contacts me as I am my Mom's POA.
One has to realize that each hospice case is different. There are many levels of medical issues. A broken hip in an elder can go both ways, they die or walk out of the rehab. A lot depends on the patient, if they were healthy to begin with, was of average weight, were willing to do physical/occupational therapy, etc.
For any person who is bedridden eventually pneumonia will set in and that becomes painful. And if the patient refuses to sit up or want to even stand once they were first brought into rehab, then there isn't a whole lot medical science can do except make them comfortable. That was my Mom, so it is just a matter of time.
I am sorry you felt you had to do this. I do know there is a great deal of guilt that many of us suffer from after using Hospice. Was it the right thing to do? From what I have been told this is almost universal to the loved one left behind. I spoke with my Pastor who is also the Hospice Chaplin. I told him I felt guilty. The Therapist assured me that what I felt was common.
My concern was that the nursed was absent any compassion. She was in and out so fast, that I was never able to bond with her. I never learned to trust her. Hospice is so busy and only three nurses at the time. I hope they have changed that issue. As when you are rushed, there is always the question....Did I do the right thing based on the nurses behavior.
However, if we loose Hospice, we are back to watching our loved one suffer from the doctors who are refusing to give proper pain medication now days. They are being instructed to not give out the drugs due to our drug infected population. Especially, in my area.
My son has horrible back pain and they are so tight with the drugs that he suffers prematurely from breaking down of his entire body due to the pain. It is crazy!
I wish you well and I pray that Hospice does not become like some of the doctors who refuse to issue pain meds on a regular basis trusting you are not a druggie.
So many people don't understand what Hospice is for. It is comfort care only, the patient signs and agrees that is what they want. Sometimes that is really hard for children who want them to keep going. I have seen a lot of posts from grief-stricken children who thought there was more time for mom or dad. If you withhold the morphine, they suffer terribly. Not fair to them.
This thread will go on forever. There's a similar thread still going with over 500 posts. The same back and forth: hospice killed my loved one.....No, hospice is a good thing. So here we go again. No ones mind is going to be changed by any debate on the subject. I'm not even sure if it's legit or just cannon fodder to stir up the forum. It's not productive and I suggest we move on.
Good point, Windy. What others did is really irrelevant because the circumstances aren't the same for everyone who's in hospice.
Beyond that, as I've written many times, believing someone has a case and foundation for suit doesn't equate to a case that has merit and would be taken by a qualified med mal attorney.
So many people think "I'll sue you!" without having any real conception of what's involved in a suit.
this is an older post, but I wanted to add to it anyways. Windyridge, I disagree with you completely. If we move on, the problem continues. My mother was euthanized by Hospice one month ago for a "maybe" broken hip. The hospice nurse talked my sisters into refusing an xray, saying it would be too painful for her. However, it apparently wasn't painful for my mother to go 10 days with no food or water while being kept in a Roxanol induced coma???? After a battle with my sisters, an xray was done, but too late for my mother. No broken hip, no tissue damage, no foreign body, no bone lesion. My mother had dementia and my father had passed away, under Hospice care, the day before my mother fell. The nurse said to me that she didn't feel my mothers quality of life was ideal, and this was the better solution. My mother was euthanized for having a bruised hip and dementia. Do we really want Hospice nurses deciding when our lives should be ended? My mother was healthy other than the dementia. I, too, would like to know if there is anything that can be done legally to help stop Hospice from having this power. I understand that Hospice is about comfort care, but this wasn't comfort care. This was a Hospice nurse deciding it was time for my mothers life to end. It was not God's will, it was hospice will.. They have too much power and it needs to stop. Attitudes of "lets move on" just mean it will continue.
Here is some important information regarding morphine. Hospice uses 5mg to 15mg to help control pain in a patient. To end someone's life using morphine, that patient would need over 200mg of said medicine. So please let's stop with the finger pointing that Hospice had ended someone life.
The body will shut down on its own time table whether Hospice is being used or not. Hospice is for comfort. I have used Hospice twice on the recommendation of my parents doctors, and was glad I did. I wouldn't wanted either of them to suffer while on their coming death time table.
Daugther3, you mentioned your mother had dementia, my Mom's death certificate said cause of death was "dementia".
My Mom had a serious fall which resulted in head injury and the doctors had found a brain bleed, and indications of several other brain bleeds from past falls [falls my parents never told me about]. Thus, it was the dementia that had accelerated, from the head trauma, that was shutting down her body.
My boss' wife had Alzheimer's... they were at the doctor's office and on the ride home she died. So one never knows when the final chapter will close. And yes, she was on Hospice but no medicine was ever given to her [the box was never opened], it was there in the house just in case the doctor/nurse felt it was time to use it for pain.
The FBI investigated two hospice companies one in Texas and the other in California, for reports of euthanasia orders. Both investigations closed without anyone being charged for a death. On the other hand the OIG (federal) claimed that inpatient stays were excessive and 20% of families could have cared for the patient at home. Obviously they've never been through it.
Daughter3, have you found any answers? I too believe hospice hastened my mothers desth! She too broke a hip and had no terminal disease. They overmedicated my mom refused our directive to stop the multiple drug combo. Ultimately I believe my mom died of kidney failure due to severe dehydration. This has got to be a crime! It's like the Liverpool care pathway in England
my mother was alert eating yelling at times the hospice staff was pushey in a nice was. i said no for 2+yrs they kept on asking me to put my mom in hospice,id be helping her they told me. shes in too much pain . i tried to tell them i just lost my son suddenly. itold them im not ready my mom was so strong a fighter. the next day 24 hrs in hospice she never spoke or ate.sleep and looked as if she was trying to fight it. im not a dr. but i know right from wrong. its as if the hospice is so used to dealing w/ death they forgot how to live or have real compassion or none. they had me take her home , i asked over and over about her condition was given mixed answers. if i take her home it will be best for her and id get to be there more ,her bed was next to mine a small apt;thats ok. its too sad/scary to put in a comment. anyone ???lorianderson
Apparently the police and prosecuting attorney allow the family power of attorney to over medicate terminally ill by administering more care medication than even the Hospice physicians prescribe. Nothing can be done to the POA, both Hospice and Police will not prosecute.
You can sue over anything. I sincerely believe you will end up with nothing but attorney bills, including the hospice's who will likely counter-sue for attorney's cost.
I think it's just too hard to prove even if you did sue. I have quite a few theories on why my Mom died when she did. She had been given Tamiflu while in the nursing home because of a flu outbreak there. I saw her condition just plummet very fast after that. A week later she died in the hospital. No one knows exactly why. They gave her an MRI first night in hospital which showed no sign of stroke, brain bleed, nothing. She was scheduled for a second one the next day and I was bullied into not getting it done by this arrogant doctor. The neurologist had told us the day before that she just had a severe bladder infection when the doctor in charge told us she was paralyzed on her right side. But when the neurologist spoke to us he grabbed my mom's hand and she had grip strength on both sides. So, to this day I have never been truly content and settled about what happened. But on the other hand, suing the hospital or the doctor in charge or what have you won't bring Mom back and I doubt I could prove anything of what I am saying anyhow.
So, sometimes you just have to swallow it and move on.
Even if you were to sue and win, most medical malpractice and wrongful death awards are based on loss of future potential income and pain and suffering.
A businessman in his 40's dies due to medical malpractice and the family wins a lawsuit, the award would be based on his current income, expected career path/future income and his career expectancy.
A woman in her 90's and in a fragile medical state....?
Abandoned, in the dying process the organs fail, the body shuts down and giving someone food or water won't help them, on the contrary it hurts them. Moistening the mouth would help.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
My MIL died with 3 weeks in a free standing hospice only facility and was on pretty serious drugs as she was septic with multiple organ failures and in deep pain. Facility had a pretty sophisticated pain management system. My mom was on hospice for 18 mos at a NH with low but consistent pain & anxiety medications for the entire time. Mom basically withering away bedfast from 100 lbs to under 60 lbs. If hospice could have over-medicated my mom to hasten her demise it would have been a good thing...if I could have signed off for this to be done, I would have as the last couple of months were like watching a self mummifcation....but this is not what hospice does nor allows to happen.
Also for any Medicare related lawsuit - should it even be successful- Medicare will require reinbursement for costs paid by Medicare from a settlement. This is due to the Medicare Secondary Payor Act (MSPA) which went into effect in 2010 but based on the Medicare Act that Bush signed in 2006. Just how MSP is done is pretty involved. Because of MSPA, it may be harder to find a lawyer.
One has to realize that each hospice case is different. There are many levels of medical issues. A broken hip in an elder can go both ways, they die or walk out of the rehab. A lot depends on the patient, if they were healthy to begin with, was of average weight, were willing to do physical/occupational therapy, etc.
For any person who is bedridden eventually pneumonia will set in and that becomes painful. And if the patient refuses to sit up or want to even stand once they were first brought into rehab, then there isn't a whole lot medical science can do except make them comfortable. That was my Mom, so it is just a matter of time.
My concern was that the nursed was absent any compassion. She was in and out so fast, that I was never able to bond with her. I never learned to trust her. Hospice is so busy and only three nurses at the time. I hope they have changed that issue. As when you are rushed, there is always the question....Did I do the right thing based on the nurses behavior.
However, if we loose Hospice, we are back to watching our loved one suffer from the doctors who are refusing to give proper pain medication now days. They are being instructed to not give out the drugs due to our drug infected population. Especially, in my area.
My son has horrible back pain and they are so tight with the drugs that he suffers prematurely from breaking down of his entire body due to the pain. It is crazy!
I wish you well and I pray that Hospice does not become like some of the doctors who refuse to issue pain meds on a regular basis trusting you are not a druggie.
If you withhold the morphine, they suffer terribly. Not fair to them.
Beyond that, as I've written many times, believing someone has a case and foundation for suit doesn't equate to a case that has merit and would be taken by a qualified med mal attorney.
So many people think "I'll sue you!" without having any real conception of what's involved in a suit.
The body will shut down on its own time table whether Hospice is being used or not. Hospice is for comfort. I have used Hospice twice on the recommendation of my parents doctors, and was glad I did. I wouldn't wanted either of them to suffer while on their coming death time table.
My Mom had a serious fall which resulted in head injury and the doctors had found a brain bleed, and indications of several other brain bleeds from past falls [falls my parents never told me about]. Thus, it was the dementia that had accelerated, from the head trauma, that was shutting down her body.
My boss' wife had Alzheimer's... they were at the doctor's office and on the ride home she died. So one never knows when the final chapter will close. And yes, she was on Hospice but no medicine was ever given to her [the box was never opened], it was there in the house just in case the doctor/nurse felt it was time to use it for pain.
So, sometimes you just have to swallow it and move on.
A businessman in his 40's dies due to medical malpractice and the family wins a lawsuit, the award would be based on his current income, expected career path/future income and his career expectancy.
A woman in her 90's and in a fragile medical state....?