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My grandma has dementia. I was taking care of her, then my mother (her daughter) put her in the nursing home. How do I find out if she really has power of attorney or any paper work over my grandma?
Is this really a bad thing? Maybe your mother did you a favor by placing your grandmother there so that you could live a life more suitable for someone your age, to build a career or a family or a better social life. Maybe she felt like your grandmother's needs were greater than what one person could provide at home. A nursing home wouldn't accept your grandmother if she didn't need a certain level of care.
Celebrate! Are you kidding me? Do you know how hard it is to even get one in a nursing home? Do you know how hard your life would continue to get taking care of yor grandmother as she gets worse with dementia? Your mother saved both you and your grandmother. You should be thanking her, as she obviously loves you both, instead of questioning her decision.
Leave it be, go on with your life, most likely it was time for GM to be placed in a facility for her own well-being. Visit her and enjoy being her granddaughter not her 24/7 caregiver.
Your mother did you a favor . You should be living your life . Grandma has had her life . Grandma’s illness should not be dictating your life . You need to work , save money , have a social life etc .
Read other threads here where grandchildren’s lives were ruined because they were duped into giving up their life to caregiving meanwhile the grandchildren’s parents and aunts and uncles were free . These grandchildren were stuck in horrific caregiving situations with no help and became unemployable .
You are lucky that you have a mother who relieved you of this . Get a job , date , etc . LIVE . You can visit grandma .
The best thing you can do for your Grandma is to visit her with your Mom and make sure she is getting appropriate care and her needs are being met.
The thing your Grandma would want the most and would make her happy is for you to live a life of peace and joy. I know because I'm a Grandma too. And as a Mom of 3 sons, I wouldn't want them to limit their lives because of me. There are other solutions for that, and your Mom figured this out. Good for her. Be sure to thank her because I'm sure none of it was easy, especially emotionally.
May you receive wisdom and peace in your heart as you life your life to its fullest.
Your grandma is now getting 24/7 care. You can be a granddaughter once again and enjoy the time you have with grandma. Sit and hold her hand and not have to clean her up, not make her bed. I am sure your grandma if you had talked to her about this 10 years ago would NOT want you to spend years caring for her and not enjoying your young life. If she knew you were giving up a movie with friends, meeting at the local café or if you are in school or have a family of your own putting all that aside for her she would not be happy.
Playing devils Advocate here.... If mom does not have POA You might be able to hire a lawyer to try to be appointed Guardian for your grandma. But I think that would be a tough fight in court. You would have to prove that mom did not act in grandmas best interest when she made the decision to place her. You would also have to prove that you are better able to manage grandmas care and that she would be safer with you than in a facility. (If grandma has few assets can you also support her as well as yourself?) Obtaining Guardianship is not an inexpensive process either and it takes time and there is detailed paperwork involved as well as occasional Court appearances. Are you prepared for that.
Taking care of someone with dementia is not easy and it gets more difficult as they decline. Please be a granddaughter not a caregiver. Your mom made the right decision. I know it hurts.
Mom doesn't have to have POA in many cases/states if she is the "next of kin". POA is conferred upon one by a still competent person; grandmother, to give POA would have to be/have been, at the time of designation, fully legally competent. If Grandmother is no longer competent and daughter is her next of kin, in many jurisdictions she can place her mom for her safety when required. There are any number of ways that next of kin can act for a senior. I think that you should ask your mother the circumstances here. If grandmother is no longer competent it would be the normal state of affairs for her daughter to act in her behalf, not the granddaughter, and this could be accomplished in many ways including temporary guardianship obtains in some cases by Hospital or Rehab social workers so that family can place elders.
We couldn't know the details here. An elder law attorney practicing in grandmother's area could answer for your state as to the legal norms.
As to sleuthing a bit, were you to contact APS with the simple question: "My grandmother has been placed in in-facility care and I am concerned this was done by her daughter against her will; is there any way I can be reassured this was legally done?" you MAY or may not get answers/assistance. You could attempt to "innocently ask admins" under cover of just a visit, "So, Mom is now grandma's POA, is she?" They probably should/wouldn't in normal circumstances discuss private issues, but something may slip out as to "oh yes, she is". Or you could try "Did Mom give you her POA papers yet? I'd be relieved to know she did." I don't know, just get clever. Worth a try if you goal is simply "knowing". You could ask the bank office where Grand's accounts are, also, if Mom fully completed the POA on Grand's accounts.
But as you might guess, being close to mom, helping her, assisting her in care and placement of grandma is your best bet to stay fully informed, because no one has to tell you anything about their POA documents. The POA is answerable only to the courts and the courts officers, APS inquiries and etc.
If grandma is fully legally competent she is also legally able to change her POA. But that would require full legal competency.
I guess you could just ask. But I think other answers posted in AgingCare indicate she doesn't have to share that or the actions she has taken as a result.
I am POA for my sister. She has two daughters who are awhere that I am. I live in VA and she lives in IL. My POA document has to be on file at her bank, the hospital she goes to, her nursing home, IL Medicaid/Medicare, IL TRS where her retirement check comes from and anything else I deal with. IRS has a different POA form. Any time I call or do something they check to see if I am POA before any further business is transacted. I would think you could check with one of them or have a lawyer check to find out who is POA for your grandmother.
The nursing home would have that information to take instructions from your mother I doubt they would have let her in without that authority
I’m not sure if they’re required to show them but they can certainly answer the question
dementia is a serious illness/condition i would imagine your grandmother woukd require full time care It may be in your grans best interests to be in a care home Unless you have reasons to dispute that try not to take it personal your mother may be looking after you as well as your grandmother
so you could take the route you’re worried about yr gran and did your mother show proof of poa you could get a legal person to speak to the carehome have you an amicable relationship with your mother - if its not strained ask to see Well done on looking after your Grandmother it is a full time job and sufferers can be a danger to themselves sometimes it’s best to accept a higher level of care us required 24/7 you sound too young to be giving up your life sweetie - a care home have staff all around the clock - taking shifts so they can rest. It may be in your Grandmothers best interests fur full time care. You can visit? And give your best on each visit wishing you the best -
I agree, some nursing homes have an attorney and he helps with all the legal papers for POA. They did this to my dad in rehab and it was also a nursing home facility.
Ask the nursing home to show you a copy of the document. If there isn't a document, most states have decided who gets to make decisions. Usually this is the order of who has priority: 1 - Spouse 2 - Parents - for most seniors this folks will not be around 3 - Adult children - some states require all adult children to agree on a decision; other states require only a majority 4 - Other adult family member 5 - Good friend
In your case, your mom has priority over you. Unless you can prove that your mom is committing fraud, neglect, or abuse... against your grandma, she is within legal rights.
As usual, AlvaDeer gives smart advice. Except, I disagree with Alva's suggestion to try and glean information from the Admin staff at her care home. I wouldn't put them in that position, and, frankly, it's none of your business. If your grandmother is still mentally competent, you can talk with her directly and ask if she has assigned anyone to be her medical proxy, (or POA), and if she would like to do so now. Otherwise, her daughter, as next-of-kin has the right and responsibility to make care decisions for her. Rather than letting this issue consume your attention, put that focus on to your grandmother, continue to be there for her, talk with her, help to make her comfortable. Spend quality time with her while you still can.
Check probate and guardianship case at the county clerks office e, usually. It would really depend on if Grandma has a will or directives for her care. I had a situation with my father whereas his wife did a financial POA but nothing else. I now want all his medical records for hereditary conditions. I was told I have to file a probate cases to get this info.
Great advice by several of our readers! Your mother made the right decision to place your Grandma into a facility for her dementia care. Dementia is loss of memory function that will require 24-hour supervision and will only get worse over time. Why not just visit your grandmother, hug and hold her hand and love her as a granddaughter instead of a very devoted loved-one’s backup caregiver?
If this were my family, I would not want to bother to find out about a relative’s POA that is likely already arranged for managing affairs for that loved one that requires so much time for medical and financial management, even with the loved one in residing in a facility, because the patient is unable to make any care decisions for her care.
Your grandmother has lived her productive years in the past, so now it is your turn to live your life with fun.
Taking care of a loved one in a dementia condition is extremely difficult work that means supervising & doing everything for that loved one or patient, from watching for wandering, feeding, dressing, diapering and more, to name just a few. It’s like caring for a toddler that may last for years before his or her death. Except this an adult with a sorrowful disability!!
Would any non- professional caregiver be capable of being an unpaid caregiver, like a caring slave and possibly ending up sick, injured, lose a shelter and maybe become homeless from long unemployment from insufficient resources, missed health and dental appts, other personal errands and self care and face entire isolation for several years? And handle this caregivng 24/7 until death due one of you parts??
Sooo much to consider, my young friend, when facilities are available with staff to cover Grandma’s care and tasks 24/7, 365 days a year, with no holidays or personal days off like other types of work, to cover her functions to save yourself from your own caregiving position into possible destruction.
I have learned that many caregivers have died ahead of their care recipients from extreme pressure and stress leading to exhaustion from lack of rest and nutrition, if taking any time out to eat, heart attack or strokes, or other conditions that caregiver may suffer.
You are so young with your entire life ahead of you. You are free and upbeat to choose your own job and career interests, and yes, to pay into Social Security and Medicare for your own senior years care someday. If you desire to enter into the caregiver business, training for that career is a choice.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Your mother saved both you and your grandmother. You should be thanking her, as she obviously loves you both, instead of questioning her decision.
Visit her and enjoy being her granddaughter not her 24/7 caregiver.
You should be living your life .
Grandma has had her life . Grandma’s illness should not be dictating your life .
You need to work , save money , have a social life etc .
Read other threads here where grandchildren’s lives were ruined because they were duped into giving up their life to caregiving meanwhile the grandchildren’s parents and aunts and uncles were free . These grandchildren were stuck in horrific caregiving situations with no help and became unemployable .
You are lucky that you have a mother who relieved you of this . Get a job , date , etc . LIVE . You can visit grandma .
The thing your Grandma would want the most and would make her happy is for you to live a life of peace and joy. I know because I'm a Grandma too. And as a Mom of 3 sons, I wouldn't want them to limit their lives because of me. There are other solutions for that, and your Mom figured this out. Good for her. Be sure to thank her because I'm sure none of it was easy, especially emotionally.
May you receive wisdom and peace in your heart as you life your life to its fullest.
You can be a granddaughter once again and enjoy the time you have with grandma.
Sit and hold her hand and not have to clean her up, not make her bed.
I am sure your grandma if you had talked to her about this 10 years ago would NOT want you to spend years caring for her and not enjoying your young life. If she knew you were giving up a movie with friends, meeting at the local café or if you are in school or have a family of your own putting all that aside for her she would not be happy.
Playing devils Advocate here....
If mom does not have POA
You might be able to hire a lawyer to try to be appointed Guardian for your grandma.
But I think that would be a tough fight in court. You would have to prove that mom did not act in grandmas best interest when she made the decision to place her.
You would also have to prove that you are better able to manage grandmas care and that she would be safer with you than in a facility.
(If grandma has few assets can you also support her as well as yourself?)
Obtaining Guardianship is not an inexpensive process either and it takes time and there is detailed paperwork involved as well as occasional Court appearances. Are you prepared for that.
Taking care of someone with dementia is not easy and it gets more difficult as they decline.
Please be a granddaughter not a caregiver.
Your mom made the right decision. I know it hurts.
If Grandmother is no longer competent and daughter is her next of kin, in many jurisdictions she can place her mom for her safety when required. There are any number of ways that next of kin can act for a senior.
I think that you should ask your mother the circumstances here.
If grandmother is no longer competent it would be the normal state of affairs for her daughter to act in her behalf, not the granddaughter, and this could be accomplished in many ways including temporary guardianship obtains in some cases by Hospital or Rehab social workers so that family can place elders.
We couldn't know the details here. An elder law attorney practicing in grandmother's area could answer for your state as to the legal norms.
As to sleuthing a bit, were you to contact APS with the simple question: "My grandmother has been placed in in-facility care and I am concerned this was done by her daughter against her will; is there any way I can be reassured this was legally done?" you MAY or may not get answers/assistance.
You could attempt to "innocently ask admins" under cover of just a visit, "So, Mom is now grandma's POA, is she?" They probably should/wouldn't in normal circumstances discuss private issues, but something may slip out as to "oh yes, she is". Or you could try "Did Mom give you her POA papers yet? I'd be relieved to know she did."
I don't know, just get clever. Worth a try if you goal is simply "knowing". You could ask the bank office where Grand's accounts are, also, if Mom fully completed the POA on Grand's accounts.
But as you might guess, being close to mom, helping her, assisting her in care and placement of grandma is your best bet to stay fully informed, because no one has to tell you anything about their POA documents. The POA is answerable only to the courts and the courts officers, APS inquiries and etc.
If grandma is fully legally competent she is also legally able to change her POA. But that would require full legal competency.
I doubt they would have let her in without that authority
I’m not sure if they’re required to show them but they can certainly answer the question
dementia is a serious illness/condition
i would imagine your grandmother woukd require full time care
It may be in your grans best interests to be in a care home
Unless you have reasons to dispute that
try not to take it personal
your mother may be looking after you as well as your grandmother
so you could take the route you’re worried about yr gran and did your mother show proof of poa
you could get a legal person to speak to the carehome
have you an amicable relationship with your mother - if its not strained ask to see
Well done on looking after your Grandmother
it is a full time job and sufferers can be a danger to themselves
sometimes it’s best to accept a higher level of care us required
24/7
you sound too young to be giving up your life sweetie - a care home have staff all around the clock - taking shifts so they can rest. It may be in your Grandmothers best interests fur full time care. You can visit? And give your best on each visit
wishing you the best -
1 - Spouse
2 - Parents - for most seniors this folks will not be around
3 - Adult children - some states require all adult children to agree on a decision; other states require only a majority
4 - Other adult family member
5 - Good friend
In your case, your mom has priority over you. Unless you can prove that your mom is committing fraud, neglect, or abuse... against your grandma, she is within legal rights.
Except, I disagree with Alva's suggestion to try and glean information from the Admin staff at her care home. I wouldn't put them in that position, and, frankly, it's none of your business.
If your grandmother is still mentally competent, you can talk with her directly and ask if she has assigned anyone to be her medical proxy, (or POA), and if she would like to do so now. Otherwise, her daughter, as next-of-kin has the right and responsibility to make care decisions for her.
Rather than letting this issue consume your attention, put that focus on to your grandmother, continue to be there for her, talk with her, help to make her comfortable. Spend quality time with her while you still can.
or directives for her care.
I had a situation with my father whereas his wife did a financial POA but nothing else. I now want all his medical records for hereditary conditions. I was told I have to file a probate cases to get this info.
If this were my family, I would not want to bother to find out about a relative’s POA that is likely already arranged for managing affairs for that loved one that requires so much time for medical and financial management, even with the loved one in residing in a facility, because the patient is unable to make any care decisions for her care.
Your grandmother has lived her productive years in the past, so now it is your turn to live your life with fun.
Taking care of a loved one in a dementia condition is extremely difficult work that means supervising & doing everything for that loved one or patient, from watching for wandering, feeding, dressing, diapering and more, to name just a few. It’s like caring for a toddler that may last for years before his or her death. Except this an adult with a sorrowful disability!!
Would any non- professional caregiver be capable of being an unpaid caregiver, like a caring slave and possibly ending up sick, injured, lose a shelter and maybe become homeless from long unemployment from insufficient resources, missed health and dental appts, other personal errands and self care and face entire isolation for several years? And handle this caregivng 24/7 until death due one of you parts??
Sooo much to consider, my young friend, when facilities are available with staff to cover Grandma’s care and tasks 24/7, 365 days a year, with no holidays or personal days off like other types of work, to cover her functions to save yourself from your own caregiving position into possible destruction.
I have learned that many caregivers have died ahead of their care recipients from extreme pressure and stress leading to exhaustion from lack of rest and nutrition, if taking any time out to eat, heart attack or strokes, or other conditions that caregiver may suffer.
You are so young with your entire life ahead of you. You are free and upbeat to choose your own job and career interests, and yes, to pay into Social Security and Medicare for your own senior years care someday. If you desire to enter into the caregiver business, training for that career is a choice.