FIL's showtiming with family at Christmas and New Year's Eve has thrown the plans to downsize him into flux. What do I/we do?

Question

FIL's showtiming with family at Christmas and New Year's Eve has thrown the plans to downsize him into flux. What do I/we do?

Follow

Share

Many of you long-time forum participants know the saga of my father-in-law who lives in independent living in the 2 bedroom/2 bath apartment he moved into with my now-deceased mother-in-law. He's been hemorrhaging money not just on the rent but on 2 full-time aides. His building is only indy living and he has been paying extra for a charade of independence for 5+ years now.

My husband is his dad's DPOA both medical and financial. He found a luxurious community in the countryside where FIL can spend the rest of his life in indy living, assisted living, or nursing home. For nearly 90, FIL's physical health is good and he could well live to be 100! My husband has been working hard to make sure that his money doesn't run out and that he gets to always live in a nice place. Some background of how much my husband has been involved in his parents' finances: he literally saved his parents from financial ruin.

FIL's cognitive decline is noticeable to all of us who spend time with him on a regular basis. And last year he had another sharp decline. Yet at Christmas and New Year's Eve, FIL's showtiming was worthy of an Academy Award. He loves talking with the wife of one of his nephews, who fawns over him. She doesn't see him often enough to know what's going on cognitively. We don't know what FIL said to her but it ended up with her writing my husband an email with such phrases as "ripping him away from his family" "his autonomy" "respect your father" "he should not have to move" etc etc etc.

So my husband is freaked out. He is worried that she will take it upon herself to stop my FIL from downsizing to a one-bedroom apartment at the sprawling country estate-like-community for seniors that hubby found. She also doesn't know that my husband showed his dad lots of pictures of the place and a lengthy video tour and FIL was ooooing and ahhhhing and said he liked the place and would move because he knew he had to cut expenses.

So, dear forum friends, how do I help my husband? This woman has a strong and overbearing personality. My husband does not want to do anything that will make her do anything beyond writing an email when she has no idea about what is actually happening with my FIL beyond what she saw at Christmas and New Year's Eve, which was an old man showtiming.

My FIL hasn't handled his own affairs in a decade; however, he is good at giving the impression that he is still in charge. My husband has humored him, perhaps too much. Bottom line is that he has to downsize and my husband wants his dad near him at the place he found for him.

Should I do anything or just keep out of it? What advice should I give my husband? My husband and his brothers have all dreaded dealing with their father, who has a strong personality and is very stubborn.

Just when I thought we were going to solve my FIL's money crisis, this wrinkle happens. Ugh. Sigh. Oy veh!

Care Decisions Living Independently Moving Relationships

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.

60 Answers

Most
Helpful Newest
First Oldest
First

1 2

I would suggest a come to Jesus talk with nephews wife. I had to deal with a few helpful relatives who had no idea what they were talking about.

Helpful Answer (5)

Report

I take it "helpful" is sarcasm? Might the amount of time this come to Jesus talk would take with her might make her feel more important than she already feels? The email was a doozy!

(2)

Report

I think I would personally ignore the overbearing nephew's wife who doesn't know this man from Adam, pretty much, yet feels confident enough to write your DH an email with the phrases she used! Unbelievable! Perhaps if DH hears from her again, he should suggest SHE come take pops for a week and care for him herself to see what the reality of his cognition is TRULY all about! I guarantee you she'd back off like she was being burned with a branding iron.

Everyone is an 'expert' on what's 'best' for an aging loved one with cognition issues, especially those who are adept at Showtiming, like my own mother was. "What is SHE doing here?" people would often ask me. There's nothing wrong with her that she 'belongs' in MEMORY CARE! Oh really? Perhaps YOU would like to take her to YOUR home to deal with her wheelchair, her Depends, her blowouts, 29 meds a day, incontinence, insomnia, afib, neuropathy, Sundowning, etc etc. My cousin Barbara would even call mom telling her she wanted her to move into her house on Staten Island .....3 floors of vertical living for a woman in A WHEELCHAIR. Never once did Barbara offer to come get her, of course. All talk and no action are what these folks truly ARE. Full of free advice and admonishments for others about what we're doing 'wrong' with no solutions in mind..........just wagging fingers.

So again, I'd ignore this woman entirely, and pretend like she never sent such a rude email to begin with. Until & unless she decides to make a pest of herself, and then she'd get a tongue lashing she'd not soon forget.

Good luck.

Helpful Answer (10)

Report

Thank you for this advice and it does make me feel better that, more than likely, she is bloviating to make herself feel good.

(8)

Report

"Dear Husband. Do what needs to be done. I am with you."

Helpful Answer (13)

Report

Thanks, Beatty!

(2)

Report

Re: the well-intentioned Niece-in-law

Thankyou for your interest in my Father. I will forward his new address once he is settled. He is meeting the challenge of downsizing well, despite his recent cognitive issues. He will have more assistance in his new location, to meet his needs better. As a family we hope everyone can continue to support him - decline can sometimes become isolating. Again, I thank you for your concern & interest.

Helpful Answer (20)

Report

Thanks for this very diplomatic way of drawing the line with her.

(4)

Report

See 1 more reply

I’d support my husband in continuing a well thought out plan and encouraging him to ignore anyone who spouts off while operating with a limited view of the situation. Your husband has done well in this, his father chose him for the role for a reason, and he needs reminding of this. Carry on and tune out the busy bodies

Helpful Answer (13)

Report

I will bring this up with my husband and his eldest brother, who is supposed to be helping their father accept that downsizing to this place hubby found is the way. In their culture, the eldest son carries a lot of weight even though my husband was the one chosen for the role of DPOA.

(2)

Report

I'd recommend you snip her well intentioned email in the bud with calmness. You wouldn't want her to call up FIL and start telling him to how you all want to put him away, take his money, etc.

Tell her about "show timing"
Give her examples of or better yet record and show her evidence of his cognitive decline
Ask her if she wants to to spend everyday for at least 2 weeks with FIL so she can see for herself.
Ask her if she wants to contribute financially to his care after he runs out of money. Let's put it in writing, too. Tell her to put her money where her mouth is.

Helpful Answer (6)

Report

I agree she needs to be made aware that the way FIL presents himself at a family holiday party or two is just him showtiming i.e. screwing it together long enough to keep up appearances. This past Christmas he only managed for a couple of hours before he wanted to go home.

(3)

Report

Maybe inform her that for starters, the current arrangement is not financially sustainable. She is welcomed to take up the payments once he runs out of money but it's not going to come out of your pocket. Then tell her the cost.

Also, a video of "a day in the life of Father: The Non-Showtiming Edition" may speak to her more loudly than words.

If it were me, as DPoA, I would respond with, "Thank you for the input. I will continue to do what's best for Father based on what I see on a daily basis and that works within the caregiving arrangement." Then ignore her. If she persists you will need to keep calmly informing her that interfering without knowing all the facts is destructive and not in Father's best interests and that a restraining order might be necessary. If she persists then she is the one choosing the restraining order, since she was warned. I would try to avoid this DEFCON 1 as much as possible, though.

Helpful Answer (3)

Report

I think giving her a video of any kind would make things worse and come across as very disrespectful toward my FIL. FIL's finances are none of her business and yet in her email she told my husband that she took it upon herself to consult with her financial advisor and that he would be happy to take a look at FIL's financial situation. I guess it never occurred to her that my in-laws started working with a financial advisor back in the 1970s/1980s and he's done an outstanding job. She seems to think that FIL has an infinite pile of money and that the well shouldn't be running dry.

(2)

Report

Dear Nephew's Wife,

So pleased that Dad and you continue to have such a sweet bond. Unfortunately, he will run out of money if he doesn't make some changes, and we all hope to have him around for a long time, living independently as much as possible and not needing to move in with family members. (How many bedrooms do you guys have again? Just in case?). Those of us who see him more frequently are aware of the increasing challenges he's facing, though he sure had fun at the holidays! We hope you'll visit Dad more frequently, since you always raise his spirits.

Helpful Answer (11)

Report

As much as I'd love to send her some well-deserved snark, she would take such offense that she'd bad mouth my husband and me and we'd never hear the end of it.

(1)

Report

See 2 more replies

Beatty's suggestions are right on! If niece persists in interfering with these well worked out arrangements, tell her that if she would like to help care for him, she needs to take a 3 day live in shift, so that she fully understands his needs. If she actually does agree to do this, pay the caregivers for that time, too - cuz she is likely to quit on him!
After she finishes her time with FIL, a family meeting to discuss his needs could be the next step...or at least a meeting with your husband and eldest brother, nephew and niece.
Doubt it would get this far.

Helpful Answer (1)

Report

Too many cooks. Nephew and his wife have never been involved in caregiving for either my MIL or FIL. If anyone deserves a seat at a family meeting with my brother-in-law, FIL, and husband, it is me. For 5+ years before moving them to indy living, I helped my husband take care of them.

(2)

Report

Hi NYDaughter - If that were me, I would deal with her head-on ...and I'm not generally a confrontational person - but this wife of your FIL's nephew is way over-stepping herself....and especially since you said she has a strong, overbearing personality, she'll resurface in some way unless you address this. Otherwise, I think you'll put yourself in a position of weakness....especially since you and your husband sound afraid of her - and you stated your husband "freaked out" after reading her email. You shouldn't allow her to intimidate you both.

So, I think you should just call her - she hid behind her email - you don't need to. You should tell her (in a professional, non-emotional, but stern way) that you were a bit taken aback at her email - and you'd prefer to address this in conversation. While you appreciate her concern about the FIL, she is unaware of the actual situation, given that she's only spent a few hours with him during the holiday and that is hardly enough time to assess what is necessary and realistic to provide your FIL with the appropriate current and future care that he may require.

And that your husband has helped him out of financial ruins years ago and he has been working diligently to ensure that his father continues to live in a beautiful community for the duration of his life - rather than being irresponsible by not preparing for his future where his money could run out. And you could ask her if she'd agree to take him in at that point instead?

You could also note that the FIL's cognitive decline is noticed to those who are close to him on a regular basis - rather than a few hours during holiday - and you're setting up a process in place to ensure his future safety. Plus, you both live nearby.

And that's it - and I'd wish her well and end the conversation there. These "do-gooders" are infuriating - it's easy for her to voice her opinion and judge - maybe she needs to just focus on her own life.

Helpful Answer (9)

Report

Thanks, Hope! I very much appreciate your reply. I agree with you that my husband needs to stand up to her and tell her point blank that he was taken aback by her email and that it was overstepping, that he has no intention of explaining himself to her beyond that my FIL's showtiming at the holidays is not reality, that he and his brother have things well in hand, and she should focus on her own life. I've also thought that that conversation would be better had between my husband and her husband who are actually blood relatives. Then her husband can sit her down and say she needs to respect our family's decisions.

(5)

Report

Is this niece-in-law able to see your FIL often or are the holidays the only time she sees him? If only holidays, then I would ignore her email. I like Beatty response. People like this niece never see where they are wrong. They feel they have a right to voice their opinions. These people you ignore.

FIL needs to downsize. He can no longer afford where he is living. And if FIL can't understand this, then maybe he should be going into an AL. The cost of hiring Caregivers has to be as much as paying the difference between IL and AL.

It all comes down to your husband has POA. He can take Dad to a Neurologist and have him declared incompetent to make informed decisions. It is now what Dad needs not what he wants.

Helpful Answer (3)

Report

Hi NY Daughter - You're very Welcome! That's a great idea for your husband to have the conversation directly with her husband - hopefully, this will put an end to it!

I'm an easy going person by nature, but I've had to push myself to get out of my own comfort zone regarding standing my ground regarding certain family situations - it's not always easy, but in the long run, it's served me better.

In this situation for you and your husband, after the conversation is addressed, I'm sure you'll feel good about moving on from it, never to think about it again - from that overbearing person!
Best wishes!

(1)

Report

See 1 more reply

Plan A
Delete the e-mail.
Understand that what someone says does not make it true.

Plan B
Bravely cc, send the email to all closest family members in charge.
Without a comment.

Best Plan
Have your husband and the older brother talk it out. Good idea!

Helpful Answer (1)

Report

Hi Send, my husband is in charge. No other family members have anything to do with FIL unless he's at a family gathering where they'll dote on him for an hour or so and pat themselves on the back for making him a plate.

(2)

Report

I have no advice but know you are not alone. My husband's family has been so impressed by MIL's showtiming over the last few years that now that she is in a nursing home, everyone is dumb founded to realize that we were right! Maybe more than a 5 minute phone call or mingle at the very occasional (covid) holiday get together they would have believed us and maybe even pitched in to help this poor woman! UGH! Some people just believe what they want to believe, and this showtiming allows them to.

Helpful Answer (2)

Report

Thanks for the kind words. The stress that distant family puts on those of us in it for the long slog is just so unnecessary. This woman is probably thinking no more about it, now that she penned her email. Never did she consider the feelings of the recipient and that's such a slap in the face to my husband. It's such a sad way to begin the New Year.

(0)

Report

It kills me when relatives who rarely see someone think that they know what is best.

I realize that she may have empathy for him, but clearly she doesn’t know what is going on in his day to day life.

Your husband is the one that is in charge here, not his niece. He has every right to continue on with what he feels is best for his dad. As his wife, it’s perfectly fine to share your thoughts on the matter.

Downsizing is the most sensible plan! He needs to be practical regarding his finances.

Your niece is interfering in your personal lives. She’s the one who doesn’t know what she doesn’t know.

Sadly, interfering busybodies are the very people who feel like they know everything when they actually know nothing about what is actually happening.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Helpful Answer (1)

Report

His niece-in-law is interfering in what we have always felt and agreed is our personal lives. She is one of those people whose strong personality has gotten them far enough in life that they are used to being considered an authority who conveys words to the wise. She has a far greater opinion of herself than she should but, again, she's probably used to bulldozing people.

(2)

Report

See 3 more replies

Quite frankly, I would not let her rant create any flux in this situation.

She obviously, doesn't know your FIL or she would see that he needs more help and he needs to plan financially for that help.

Too many younger people think that the government will step in if we run out of money. True to a degree but, the way things are going that is not going to be a reality for much longer.

Helpful Answer (1)

Report

She's actually older than we are by about 10 years. I hope that we will be able to forget all of this unpleasantness that she's caused, and move ahead as planned.

(1)

Report

See 1 more reply

NY,
You asked:
"Should I do anything or just keep out of it? What advice should I give my husband?"

You can continue to care and do what you have been doing, without doubting yourself. (No matter what anyone says). Calmly discussing this with your husband may help him. Seems that the niece could be a narcissist, and if so, experts advise "Do not confront a narcissist".

Advise your husband to be strong and continue the excellent plans already carefully made. Your plans for Fil sound reasonable. And keeping him closer may ease some of the caregiving burden for you both.

Remember that you both are put in a caring position, with that brings:
"No good deed goes unpunished." It is not easy.

Helpful Answer (3)

Report

Eldest brother-in-law's wife is a physician and she's always called my FIL a narcissist! Perhaps that's why FIL gets along so well with niece-in-law? Unfortunately, my husband does have to confront his dad. So, how to confront a (possibly) narcissistic father in cognitive decline?

My husband is starting to circle the wagons. He's called in reinforcements i.e. FIL's accountant for 40 years with whom my husband consulted many many times about this plan and who agrees that it's good and financially prudent.

(2)

Report

Maybe should you tell her to " F ___ Off "

Helpful Answer (4)

Report

One day in the distant future once things have settled despite her best efforts, I will remind her of how her email made us feel and I will invite her to F right off. I'll probably chicken out but, right now, it feels good to imagine myself doing it!

(9)

Report

NY,

I responded to a post and don’t see it now. Anyway, I mentioned that I LOVE what HopeForHelp says about your NIL hiding behind an email.

She wouldn’t have to nerve to say these nasty, ridiculous things to your face.

People like her try to intimidate others through emails, social media, text messages, and so on.

They are poor communicators when confronted in person.

I am all for modern technology when it is utilized properly. I don’t like when I see it misused.

You know your situation better than anyone else. That is all that truly matters.

You don’t owe her a response at all but I do love the poster who said that you could ask her about having a spare bedroom. That was brilliant!

As always Beatty’s posting regarding a response was so tasteful! No need to stoop to her level. Why give her any credence? It would only feed her ego and she would misinterpret your words and attempt to use them as ammunition.

It’s sad really. You sort of have to pity people who feel the need to continually interfere in others lives when they know absolutely nothing about the situation.

I have no doubt that you and your husband know what you’re doing and aren’t relying on your NIL for feedback.

Helpful Answer (1)

Report

Thank you, Need! That comment about NIL hiding behind an email also struck me as probably right on point. I've referred to her as having a strong personality but coward and poor communicator are appropriate. Ignoring her altogether will keep my husband and me on the high road. Ignore. Delete her email. Keep on keeping on.

(5)

Report

See 1 more reply

Dear Niece-in-Law,

I appreciate your concern regarding my dad. However, this is an immediate-family matter, and my siblings and I are making decisions in his best interests as we/I have been doing for a decade already.

I'll send you his new address once he is settled. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you or have a visit.

All the best,

Hubby

Helpful Answer (9)

Report

Yes, much improved!

(1)

Report

See 2 more replies

I’d echo those that say ignore, especially since she is an in-law and rarely sees him. She may try to make trouble, she may not. But, she is more likely to rock the boat if you give her a place at the table by responding.

If it were me, I would just go on as if you never got the email. It was so hurtful and out of line and I am sorry you guys had to go through that.

Now, forget her and focus on getting FIL where he needs to be as quickly as possible.

She is just a distraction. The fact is that this will be hard enough. It sounds like DH is doing a lot of projecting of what *may* happen or what she might do. Totally normal. But, it will go better for both of you if you just take what is in front of you one step at a time.

These types of people gather power by keeping everyone using all of their energy to deflect them. Just don’t.

Tell DH he can do this… we are all cheering you guys on:)

As far as money/explanations, you don’t share those things because you are respecting his privacy. No one’s beeswax, lol.

It’s been my experience that grandkids have the hardest time with this stuff. That separation between generations is what gives grandparents their awesome rosy glow. It’s a great gift… most of the time. She/nephew will always think they are right… don’t provide valuable headspace to their ignorance. Won’t change them and it won’t help you.

Best wishes.

Helpful Answer (4)

Report

Thank you, 499! Neither she nor her husband deserves a place at the table. It was very hurtful what she wrote. And I think it's the utter shock of reading her email and the tone in which it was written that sent my husband's head spinning. You are right that we won't change her and it's not even worth trying.

(3)

Report

See 1 more reply

The niece in law has no vote. She's a meddler. Your husband's plan is super! Stand by him.

Helpful Answer (9)

Report

Absolutely, Natasana! I stand with him 100%. His plan is sound - even FIL's longtime accountant says so. And eldest brother-in-law agrees that this is the only plan that will allow FIL to afford to age in place and at a very nice place unless FIL turns out to be Methuselah.

(6)

Report

I suppose ignoring it is one way to deal with it. Just "accidently" delete the email and pretend you never saw it. If she asks, say "Oh, really? You sent us something. I have to check the spam box."

Helpful Answer (10)

Report

Problem is, neither hubby nor I are good liars and she'd probably be able to tell that we did get it, we did read it, and we were taken aback by it; she showed her colors and they were not flattering. I do know that my husband plans on reading her email aloud to his dad when his eldest brother visits next week. And eldest brother was also very much offended by her because the first person hubby showed the new community to after showing it to me was his brother.

(3)

Report

NYDIL, Your husband is acting in his dad's best interests.

If FIL pushes back on this plan, DH can resign and allow NIL or the State become guardian.

Less work for you guys...

Helpful Answer (0)

Report

FIL has two choices - push back on the plan and run out of money or move and live in comfort for the rest of his life. When faced with those two choices, I believe FIL still has enough brain cells to choose wisely, agree to move, and sign the paperwork that hubby needs in order to get the ball rolling at the new community. And all of this will be done in the presence of an attorney and notary so that no one - including NIL - can ever say that he was coerced.

(3)

Report

In my opinion only the immediate son and his siblings should have any final input at all…not even the wives… if FIL lives in his own apartment. I get lots of unneeded advice about my mom but as POA…I make all the decisions that involve her money…{I do allow my sibling an opinion} but if mom trusted him and the gal pal to make all her decisions she would have chosen them to take over years ago! As for the showtiming….yup my mom appears fairly normal in front of some people…yet has no insight into safety or money decisions. She showtimes beautifully also…ps: I listen to mom but I sometimes veto her ideas when not sensible.

Helpful Answer (3)

Report

I'm the only wife who has input. I have input because my husband is POA and prior to moving my inlaws to indy living, I helped care for them. Caregiving needs to work for all involved. FIL's choices affect my husband and what affects my husband affects me. My husband's first obligation is to our marriage. Our marriage does not revolve around my FIL. Were my FIL competent to manage his own affairs that would be a different matter. But he isn't - and he hasn't been in over a decade now.

(8)

Report

See 2 more replies

Nydil, I'm not sure I understand why your DH would share this upsetting email with FIL?

Helpful Answer (0)

Report

He hasn't. It was a thought. He wants to understand what he said to NIL that caused her to send it. I suppose he doesn't need to share it at all.

(3)

Report

"Thank you for your caring concern; FIL is on board with his new plans and you'll see he will be very comfortable when you visit him there." She's a buttinsky, as they say; don't be swayed by FIL 'showtiming' nor her meddling/manipulating.

Helpful Answer (3)

Report

I was unaware but in a call with one of my hubby's closest cousins, the buttinsky has a reputation within the family for being "difficult".

(4)

Report

"Thank you for your caring concern; FIL is on board with his new plans and you'll see he will be very comfortable when you visit him there." She's a buttinsky, as they say; don't be swayed by FIL 'showtiming' nor her meddling/manipulating.

Helpful Answer (9)

Report

I don’t understand why you are even giving this NIL any power…why give her opinion a second thought. She is not even immediate family. Why read her email to the brother? You and hubby are doing the right thing. Don’t let her make you second guess yourselves.

Helpful Answer (7)

Report

I think what was so shocking is that her email came out of nowhere and was so over-the-top rude and intrusive that we could not help but second ourselves. It was our first experience with her in that way and FIL has always liked her. Hubby is determined to move ahead with the plan as planned.

(10)

Report

Ah yes. The "well meaning" outsider who has no clue. They are a dime a dozen.

Helpful Answer (11)

Report

Years ago my FIL's baby brother ruined plans to downsize him to a one bedroom at his current place. My husband was furious at his uncle and so was I. But until experiencing this non-blood relative myself, I could not appreciate just how awful such people can make one feel.

(5)

Report

See 1 more reply

Ugh....I would go through with the plans and tell her so.

Email her back and say "Thank you for the feedback. Here are the financials showing that he will be destitute in x years. Here is the financial picture if we move him. I'm planning on going forward with the plan to move him."

If your husband has been watching his Dad's finances for the last few years, submit those spreadsheets to her also so that she knows how much his costs have been. Most people, myself included, are surprised at the actual cost when it is tallied up.

And continue to say "Thank you for the feedback". As hard as it is, just repeat over and over (to yourself and in the email), this is a business decision to ensure he has someplace comfortable to live out the rest of his life.

Treat it as a business decision, with business-like emails.

UGH....

I feel for you.

Helpful Answer (6)

Report

We won't be sharing his personal finances with her but rather, when we see her at the next family gathering, we will be continuing with our plans. And yes, this is a business decision and it's not like we're putting him in a tent but rather a lovely community that's just a heck of a lot less expensive.

(1)

Report

1 2

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.

FIL's showtiming with family at Christmas and New Year's Eve has thrown the plans to downsize him into flux. What do I/we do?

60 Answers

Recent Questions

Popular Questions

Related Questions