Before Mom was moved to a small group home, for her stage 6 dementia, Dad wanted us (my husband and I) to bring both of them into our home, and hire extra help for Mom, knowing I couldn’t do it. They were living in AL and Dad hated it. He lived there to be with Mom. At that time, he said he’d pay us 1/2 of what they were paying at AL, which was around $7k, and I said no, and it was hard, but we simply cannot, mentally or physically take both of them in. A year later, Mom was moved to a group hospice home and Dad refuses to stay in AL where they were living together.He is 92, but very independent and still drives. I then told him he could stay with us “until” the dust settles and we see how things work. It’s been 6 months and my husband is not liking it. I approached the money subject with Dad, and he made me feel like we owe him and he won’t pitch in monthly. Now things feel strained with him AND hubby. Feel free to tell me I’m foolish for allowing it to happen! I know it. But now what?…..
I think if your Dad can provide any financial assistance because he has enough to do that, then he should and maybe that would help your situation. Sometimes parents are not able to do that because of the small to little income they may receive. It would be advisable to talk with a good counselor, a geriatric manager, and/or a financial planner to assist with those future situations you will encounter as your Dad continues to age.
Second, we could all be in total agreement in this discussion that yes your dad needs to pay, and we could calculate in unison how much that would be, but it would not matter whatsoever if your dad refuses to pay it. Even if he does reluctantly pay one month, you have no enforcement mechanism to ensure that he will every month, and then you'll end up with so much recurring tension: will he pay this month, okay he paid this month but was so rude and unpleasant about it, is he going to pay it next month and when should I start asking/reminding him, on and on in a perpetual cycle.
He is able-bodied and able to live on his own, plus you have your own health issues. He needs to go.
I'm sorry about your mother. I hope she can be made comfortable and peaceful in whatever time she has left, and that you will be able to find comfort and peace about her as well.
You need to decide what you can 'live with' after the 'dust settles' as you said.
It settled.
[With all my comments below, see if there is room for a financial compromise that may be [more] agreeable to all - you - your husband - and your dad.]
* You have two relationships to consider:
- one with your dad
- one with your husband
Questions I would ask myself:
* what is reasonable, financially?
* what do you need ? want ? financially.
* are you going to (ALLOW TO) be pressured by your dad? He seems to discount what you said about the dust settling, ignoring you.
* do you have your own money to pay for household expenditures that are created due to a third person in the house (your dad) - since you do not want to ask / require your dad to contribute. In other words, do you feel your husband 'should' / 'needs to' absorb financially what your dad isn't - or won't - contribute?
It would be a red flag to me if my parent pressured me / tried to guilt me into doing that THEY feel you OWE them.
- much or some may depend on the financial capability of your dad. Can he contribute vs he just doesn't want to - believing / feeling that it is YOUR DUTY as his daughter to take care of him?
If I were you, I would strongly consider that this is YOUR home (and your husband's home) and you can make whatever financial arrangements / decisions you want - with your dad. Dad doesn't dictate to you or your husband.
You have to listen to your gut.
Yes, I can imagine that this has caused discord with your husband. How important is this to you and how is it affecting your relationship?
It seems like your dad doesn't have an alternative.
- Discuss what housing arrangements are available for your dad 'if' he doesn't want to contribute. He won't expect this question ... it will give him something to think about - and he needs to think about it.
IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER: There will come a time when you cannot manage the care he needs in your home. The question may be - do you want to wait until that happens, whether a fall/broken bones/unable to walk, needing 24/7 care - or dementia / brain changes ... or get him settled in now with a new life - style, where there is 'more of' a smoother transition as his care needs change / increase?
See what he says. He may have a change of heart.
I take issue / do not feel good about your dad's position - that he feels you OWE him.
Does he consider all you've been doing over the last year or more years? Perhaps he needs a reality check.
Gena / Touch Matters
My mom moved in with me when I bought a house four years ago. The house never felt like it was mine even though I pay the mortgage alone. She pays for gas and complains about that and calls me a bad daughter because she expected to live in my house completely free. From the start she determined what the landscaping would be, has major say in who I can hire to maintain my home, and has been a menace to everyone around her causing conflict with neighbors.
I always suspected she had dementia but in the last month it has gotten much worse with her having daily auditory hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia targeted at our next door neighbors. I'm desperately waiting for her neurology appointment next month and a geriatrician appointment in May to finally get her diagnosed. I believe she is far enough along now that there will be a diagnosis of some form of dementia. Using that information I plan to decide where to put her.
I already told her I’ll be selling the house and won’t be living with her anymore. She's had meltdowns and tantrums as so many here will attest their parents do when you tell them they can't use and abuse you in a house they live in for free or low cost anymore. They also hate giving up their freedom (ex. driving, having a house and backyard, family to keep them company, and coming and going as they please) when they enter a facility.
Putting up with an elderly parents’ antics alone deserves payment. If your dad can afford $7k/month in AL he should absolutely help your household financially, even if it’s only a few thousand a month to cover utilities and household expenses. He'd be paying a lot more living anywhere else these days.
And you may have great regret if you were to make him leave. If he’s refusing to pay, I don’t know that there’s much you can do about that at his age without causing a terrible rift.
You may want to speak to a therapist about this that is proficient in family dynamics and assisting families in remaining together emotionally
he obviously doesn’t want to be alone.
The easiest solution is he has to go back to AL. It really comes down to what is more important to you at this stage of your life? Your parents or your husband.
I understand the strain that parents can put on a marriage. Both of mine are living and in their 90s. Both of my husband’s were deceased within a week of each other at 72. My husband has suffered loss, but - he never had to deal with aging parents. We are not spring chickens either. My husband has accepted a lot of the change and responsibilities that are competing for my time with him and we have worked through it. But, I have made it clear that as long as my parents have the financial means to pay for their care and supplies, we will not pay those costs. My mother lives with us and my Dad is in AL - which my Dad also hates. I am sorry he hates it, but it is where he needs to be due to poor eyesight, dementia, and lack of socialization at his home. My mother is only with us because she is bedridden and I don’t trust institutionalized care for her. Her $ pays for M - F help during the day. I handle nights and weekends. Assuming your father has the financial means, I would definitely explain to him that going forward, you will need him to pay X amount to continue to live at your house., part of which might need to go towards hiring help. Better yet, explain that you and your husband love him but that you need to live your own lives which means he needs to live at an AL.
I made up my mind 4 years ago when this all started, that if I had to choose between my parents or my husband, I choose my husband. Fortunately, I have been able to find a balance for now. You are out of balance due to your father’s refusal to financially contribute to his care. Again, if he can’t, that is one thing. But if he can, then he is being selfish and disregarding your needs. You can’t be monkey-in-the middle on this. Make sure that your husband will accept the situation if your Dad agrees to pay whatever you both decide is fair. He may really just want him in AL. Ask your husband to try a compromise of monthly payments if he is willing. Then draw up a lease for your Dad so that those payments cannot be considered gifts of $ to you. You will need that if he ever needs to qualify for Medicaid. Make sure your Dad understands that the arrangement is subject to revocation or change if it is not working for you and your husband. Make sure the lease explicitly says that. Absolutely make sure you are legally designated as POA. Otherwise, he lives somewhere else. Let us know what happens.
Also I had a friend remind me that you are married and the Bible does say "leave and cleave". So where is your first responsibility now? You still care about your Dad and want to help but your husband also lives in the house. A three way agreement is best.
There are resources you can find through Aging & Disability. In fact, visit your local one in the area. Here is a website you can look at as an example: https://caringbeast.com/sample-family-caregiver-agreement
Wishing you the best during your time of struggle and decision making.
So we found one he can afford and he has a small apartment in the independent living part. They make his meals, change his linens, laundry, have a ride service, etc. After a hospital stay, he needed AL but he didn’t have to move. They just sent someone to his apartment to assist. There was the extra fee that went away when he surprisingly recovered. If he needs memory care, he will need to move to a new apartment at the same place. Currently he has cognitive decline pretty bad when it comes to judgment and money but his memory is not bad and he does not wander so he is ok in the IL. I program an Echo Dot from my phone to remind him to take meds, go down for meal times, appointments, and if there are any activities I think he would enjoy.
Living there has saved our relationship. And having friends his age has helped him. For example he was terrified to have cataract surgery for years. But meeting other people who have done it, he finally has good vision again. The community has added years to his life.
The negative, selfish, comments of people who seem to think that if you had really good parents, that it is fine to just turn your back on them, should be ashamed. If you had dead beat parents who treated you badly, then that is another story. Imagine saying, “With no expiration date in sight.”
When everyone in the world only cares about themselves, what kind of a world would that be? It is sad when I hear people act like they can’t wait for a parent to die. Either because they don’t care about them or want their money. It is really only ok to hope for a passing, if they are suffering or in terrible pain. I am fully aware of caregivers burnout, and for that people need to find help.
I hope someone in the family visits the Mom and watches out for her care???
That being said….
Yes, I’m dealing with caregiver burnout of 5 years on my own with no sibling help, not even visits. Awful family dynamics and In the last 5 years there have been - 1 heart attack, 2 strokes, 3 TIA’s (combined) and 3 moves to get them closer to me. No one else visits or seems cares but me.
Yes, Mom is suffering, and I do pray for her passing 😢 and suffer from guilt for thinking that.
Dad moved in after Mom was placed in hospice. I had major back surgery 3 weeks ago and am visiting her when I can. I haven’t found many “haters” here on this forum in the 5 years I’ve been on it. More than anything, I’ve found compassion when it was hard to come by 💗
There's an old saying that 'those who live by the sword, die by the sword'. Letting your DH put his foot down is a similar tactic to F's.
Particularly if you are doing ANYTHING for him. (driving them to appointments, helping him with ADL's, helping them with medication management and so on)
How many parents charge adult children rent when they move back home? (Probably more should but that's another topic)
Your dad is using your water, electric, garbage service
He should pay a fair % of ALL household expenses.
If there are 3 of you in the house they pay 1/3 of the mortgage and homeowners insurance , all utilities and services (so half the gas, electric, garbage, water cable and if you pay for lawn service)
If he do not agree to pay his portion then he can begin looking for another place to live.
Not going to tell you are foolish but you do have to set boundaries and give him the ground rules. If he refuses then he can return to AL facility so begin the search now.
You're foolish to have told Dad, No. Now he expects to not have to pay anything. And unfortunately, it also sounds like Dad might not be cognitively adept as he used to be, IF before this he was a fair and reasonable man, but is not now. With all the money he has saved, get him to prepay for his funeral and burial, if he hasn't already, and then take him to go look at some really nice INDEPENDANT living facilities in the area, that are within his logical budget.
do any of these haters want to be tossed aside in their days of need?
what a joke! The only reason your husband has you as his wife, is thanks to your DAD!
(and mom too of course)
And, Tiger, I haven't seen a whole lot of HATE and HATERS here on this thread. Until NOW.
My bil, an attorney and her personal representative, handled all the financial aspects of her being with us, including a check for $1,500 a month to us to cover our expenses. I protested, thinking, "This is family, you don't make family pay." But he was insistent and said it was the right thing to do, considering the disruption to our lives. I did come to appreciate the money each month. It was the right thing to do.
So, I am agreeing with your husband that your dad needs to contribute financially. But I will go one step farther and agree with most of the posters here and say it is time for dad to find an appropriate place to live. Prioritize your marriage.
While there were many rewarding things about having mil stay here (she told me stories no one else will ever know, she shared her cooking tips, family came to visit more), there was also the stress of being the one who carried the responsibility not for just her, but also for my disabled husband. You need to consider the cost to yourself as well your own family life when thinking about dad staying with you long-term. There will come a time when he will need more than just a place to live. It sounds like he doesn't need AL now, so an apartment in a senior community might be the best way to start. Maybe he didn't like where he was before because it was AL and not independent, something to talk to him about.
Wishing you all the best!
I speak from experience. My mother lives with me. My husband and I feel blessed. She brings laughter and wisdom to our days. She is not a financial burden because her Medicare pays for health needs and she offers to help with groceries once a month. She is 100 years old and my husband and I are 75 and 71.
Parents take care of children and children take care of their parents.
It is a good system.
Your answer assumes things that are not true. Stop trying to guilt trip those that have different realities than you. We each have our own reasons for choosing the route we can manage and it is nobody's business to make us feel bad by their "good deeds".
Bottom line. Nobody should be living in your house for free. If your father was paying $7 a month for AL, he can afford to pay whatever amount of rent or room-and-board, whatever we're calling it to you.
If the lack of financial contribution is upsetting your husband, then your father writes you a check today or he goes and lives somewhere else. This has to be non-negotiable.
Both you and your husband need to remind him that he willingly forked over 7 grand a month to live in AL which he hated. Now he's happy at your place and enjoys a good life but it's not going to be free.
There's three of you. Your husband, you, your father. It would be very reasonable to expect him to at least pay 1/3 of the household expenses in such a situation.
Of course your dad should respect and honor your husband as head of household and pay his share.
He may of brought you into this world by his actions but, your husband doesn't owe him anything.
Are you okay with your dad and yourself ignoring your husband's feelings? Are you okay with your husband leaving over this?
You are not responsible for your dad. You are responsible for your marriage and your dad is being a grifter with your support. Time to put your big girl pants on and confront dad's entitled bs. Pay up, get out or whatever you and your husband decide should be the route forward. That's what you and your dad need to face.
A man can only handle so much disrespect before it is easier to leave, are you wanting hubby gone?
of course it’s justified they pay contribution to your home
every little helps
No one lives for free if they have funds
ultimatum to father
hard conversations re living arrangements
he either needs to contribute to live at your house or return to ….
his choice
no way should he be there taking advantage of you
thats his options
that said if it already proving hard then you really need to explore options for him to move out
whether that be back to xxxx
or another place
if it’s already draining you and not financially - then pull the plaster off early!! Before it gets too painful ( fir everyone)
hard conversations to be had
i would make enquiries about options/other places to present to him to decide when you have that conversation
be prepared for unpleasant replies tho -as if your father is unreasonable now faced with his plans being altered he may be worse. Switch off to it - that’s something you can’t control
The better option is for him to get his own place. The current arrangement is not going to work out long term.
Once Mom went to Hospice, Independent Dad should have gotten his own place, instead of weasel his way into your home. What nerve to not pay anything for 6 months! Why exactly does he think you "owe him?" Does your Dad think life is a free ride? That mortgages, utilities and groceries are free? He's old enough to know better, and needs to get booted right out. He should have plenty of money to move somewhere he wants, since he saved himself $42,000 the last 6 months, mooching off you! I would be fuming he refused to pay anything when you asked!
Did Dad take his own elderly parents into his home and let them live there free?
I doubt it. Yes, it was a mistake to let him move in, but you had a weak moment...don't make the same mistake again! After 6 months, if he gets mail there he has established legal residence. He can make it very hard for you to get him out.
You & Hubby need to sit Dad down, tell him the "dust has settled" and time for him to get his own place. You can't afford supporting him and don't like waiting on someone that refuses to pay his way. Give him a target date to move out. He drives, so he can check out places himself. If he complains you "owe him" tell him you just saved him $42,000 and you don't owe him ANYTHING.
Remind Dad it's your home and you & Hubby run the show, not him. Let him stomp and yell, and don't budge. The 6 month test run proved he is a freeloader, ungrateful and selfish. Don't agree to let him stay, even if he offers money.
You owe him nothing, don't feel guilty. His big mistake was refusing to pay you ANYTHING, even when you asked. That was totally disrespectful to you. Hopefully he will pack it up and leave without a fight. He can get a room at a motel and see what paying his own way is all about. Don't cave!!!
Your home is your husband's home also and if he is unhappy with the arrangement after six months, then the arrangement needs to end. Forcing your dad to pay, even if it was possible, which it sounds like it isn't, doesn't solve the issue. Moving him does. You need to work with him to find a new place for him to live. Remind him that he had an extra six month's worth of income/savings from not paying while he had lived with you, and you were glad to do it, but the arrangement was never meant to be permanent, and now is the time for him to find a new place. Just don't blame it on your husband not wanting him there; show a united front with your husband.
I know it's way easier said than done, but It must be done. Let us know how it goes.
It’s more difficult getting them placed in assisted living if they live with you , rather than ( eventually ) living alone unsafe . I did a lot for my parents , but drew the line at living together .
For the record your husband is right . Why should Dad get a free ride ?
There should be 2 conditions for him living in your home:
1) he financially contributes (doesn't matter if he's forgotten he offered this)
2) he makes you his PoA and then agrees to a cognitive exam by his primary doctor while in your presence
Doesn't like this? Fine, he can move out.
But fast forward into the not-too-distant future: he's living "independently" but is not paying his bills, not showering often enough, is having fender benders and getting tickets, and is sure you (or someone) is "out to rob him".
Welcome to dementia. Now what?
If you're not his PoA, and he refuses to cough up the money to pay for aids, and even if YOU pay for aids (please don't) he shoos them away then you will have no choice but report him to APS and he will be on track for a court-assigned 3rd party legal guardian who will transition him to a facility.
If you ARE his PoA then you may still have a heckofa time getting him to accept help. This is very common scenario. Has nothing to do with reason or logic because dementia will rob him of it.
Neither of those scenarios seem fun. Unless he has a profound medical event that moves up the timeline (like a fall or a stroke, etc), he could be in your home declining and burning you both out -- regardless whether he's paying you or not.
Your marriage is your #1 priority. It doesn't seem like he will be happy with either option 1 or 2 so just move him out now so that YOU and your hubs can be happy. Maybe into IL in a continuum of care community so that as his care needs increase, you don't have to fight him to accept help. The help will already be there. You need to stockpile happiness and peace because once he declines in earnest you will need extra reserves to help him.